Price of Progress: Greedy Grixis Pt. 2
Will Price | December 2, 2008 | 10:55 pmHello again everyone!
As you all may have guessed, I got caught up in Thanksgiving festivities and was traveling with family all last week. While I did not get a chance to play any MTG on my vacation (Although I see MichaelJ did plenty!) I did however find out that it is possible to get through airport security without any form of identification (lesson learned: airport security very much wants you to have photo identification when you travel, and you ruin someones day when you don’t).
I read through the work Mike did with my list over the break, and while I do agree with him that the mana was pretty bad in the deck, I pretty much disagree with all the other changes he made. The one exception would be that I am finally ready to cut Fulminator Mage from the list. As much as I love a Stone Rain, that is really all he is: a Stone Rain. Stone Rain just isn’t that good when you don’t have quick threats (Magnivore) or redundancy (more Stone Rains!)
Taking into consideration the many suggestions I have gotten for the deck (mostly credited to good man Steve Sadin), here is the latest version:
Greedy Grixis v3
Ajani Vengeant x3
Bitterblossom x4
Cryptic Command x4
Grixis Charm x3
Makeshift Mannequin x3
Firespout x3
Sower of Temptation x3
Mulldrifter x4
Siege-Gang Commander x3
Shriekmaw x2
Reveillark x3
Vivid Creek x4
Vivid Marsh x4
Vivid Crag x2
Reflecting Pools x4
Cascade Bluffs x3
Sunken Ruins x2
Shivan Reef x2
Underground River x2
Graven Cairns x1
Mystic Gate x1
To quote Sadin “I’ve been playing with Vivid lands for a year now and have yet to have any mana problems. Your deck could probably play 20 of them.”
I didn’t go for the full 20 Vivids, but I think I am comfortable with running 10. It takes a lot of the pain out of the deck, although I did leave a little in because I am paranoid about getting the Filter Land x3, GAS x4 draw and having to mulligan.
Unfortunately I still have not gotten to test this (did anyone download the Mac MTG program I linked to last time who would like to play a set with me?) I am definitely going to get a couple of sets in before the 5k this weekend. I am still very confident in the deck, even though the most common comment I get from co-workers regarding the list is that it doesn’t look like it can beat anything. Note to co-workers: I view such comments as a leading indicator that the deck is good.
One point of criticism is that the curve for the deck is very slow. Here is the curve:
1 Drops: 0 (Does 10x CIP tapped lands count as one drops?)
2 Drops: 4
3 Drops: 6
4 Drops: 13
5 Drops: 12
This is more of a cliff than a curve. The deck has only a couple of 2 and 3 drops, and a glut of 4 and 5 drops. Under traditional Curve Math, this deck does not seem viable. Therefore, I submit this highly suspicious and non-sanctioned curve breakdown that accounts for the Evoke Factor.
1 Drops: 0
2 Drops: 6
3 Drops: 10
4 Drops: 13
5 Drops: 6
Shriekmaw and Mulldrifter make the curve appear very top-heavy, but when you factor in their alternate casting cost via Evoke the curve looks a lot more manageable. And it is. Skeptics will notice that I did not adjust the curve to accommodate Reveillark, which has a higher Evoke cost. You got me.
All that is left is to figure out a sideboard. Now that I have a list I am reasonably satisfied with I still need to figure out how to sideboard. I was pretty confident about my game 1 against aggro with the old list, and now that I have Firespout I don’t think I need to devote much sideboard space to that at all. Therefore, the matchups I need to fix with sideboard are 5c Control, Faeries, and Inferior Lark Decks.
Against 5c I think I want to side in 5 cards. Shriekmaw and Sower are not great in the matchup (although Sower has had its moments) since the games I lose are ones where they get me with an Ultimatum. I have a lot of confidence in my threats, and I can still tempo them a bit by bouncing lands. For this matchup I can see hand disruption being very valuable, so I want some mix of Thoughtseize and Mindshatter to bring in against them.
Faeries is tough because I can’t really tell what is truly dead against them. Looking over my list, the worst cards seem to be Shriekmaw, Firespout and Sower of Temptation. There are a lot of different things I want against Faeries. My biggest fears are Bitterblossom and Mistbind Clique. Thoughtsieze is pretty good at nabbing a Bitterblossom (only when I go first though, awk), Wispmare can destroy one in play and block in the sky, and can be brought back to kill again, and Remove Soul takes care of Clique.
For the ILD match, I probably just need a way to deal with the graveyard, so some number of Relics should be fine.
That leaves me with:
3 Thoughtseize
3 Remove Soul
2 Wispmare
2 Mind Shatter
3 Relic of Progenitus
3 Cards For Aggro (Sower/Shriekmaw/Firespout Go Here?)
So this has post has gone on for much longer than anyone expected, so I will wrap it up with some requests for comments.
Am I missing any matchups that I need to be worried about, and if so, what do I need to bring in against them?
Is it realistic to think I can beat Faeries, even post board? (Don’t answer that, I prefer ignorance)
Would this deck just evolve into 5c given another month of tweaking?
Are you going to the 5k? What are you planning on playing?
Who is pumped for the Legacy GP?
Tell Your Friends,
WillPoP
I have just one comment: Tell Matt to stop breaking the website.
The podcasts are STILL down, with the thing. This is also my last attempt to make you guys react and fix the thing.
I sure hope so <_<
I’m excited for Legacy. I might actually make the effort to make it to that GP.
i would play on the mac mws. look for baldr7. i may be on very late or very early for you tho because i am on a different time zone
nwhinston: My name on Web Wizard is Sloppy, I will look for you next time I play. I am usually on during the evening EST.
Do you have to be on a Mac to use that program or could someone with windows test with you?
I believe you have to be on a Mac, but I am not entirely sure. It is a Java app, so there is the chance that it could be cross platform. I also have limited access to MWS if i can mise my room mates laptop.
Off topic:
http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/13847.html
Does this mean he will be on the PT now?
Randy will be doing video coverage / webcasting with me at Worlds but I fully expect him to be playing in Kyoto.
I actually taped some games with my version of Will’s deck.
I am certain that there are many matchups where you can’t win without Cruel Ultimatum.
That said, I’ve lost more than once to Fae resolving Cruel Ultimatum… twice even.
The Fae match is very difficult.
I just got back from speaking at a seminar in Florida and I have literally no voice but when it returns I will produce the video of working on Will’s deck and put it up on You Tube.
I disagree with the move to Vivid lands. I know I am the one who said that Tri-lands are not going to be played heavily in Standard until Vivids rotate however something Sadin may have missed is that Will’s deck has a steady, unending, turn-to-turn NEED for colored mana. All of the cards have persistent color requirements that cannot be resolved by generic Vivid lands. I actually use all the counters on my Vivid Creeks on a regular basis in Will’s deck.
By the way it is utterly pointless to continue to play Sower of Temptation in this deck if you have pulled Reveillark; Seige-Gang is also much less exciting without the big guy. Are there missing Larks?
YES!
It looks like I left the Larks off the list. Will go and edit it now, there should be 3 of them.
That’s really weak that Randy got fired, but MAN is it exciting. I really hope he comes back to the game with a vengeance, that would be so awesome, yet more dedicated and talented players in the US. Maybe he’ll write (or podcast) for somewhere… like… I dunno… Top8Magic.com or something?
I feel bad for Randy, but at the same time I am SO. FREAKING. EXCITED for him to come back. We’ve missed you, Randy!
How good is Grixis Charm really? I mean I can see the synergy with Siege Gang and all, but that seems more cute than effective as Siege Gang can just kill people by him self. It also doesn’t kill anything, at least that I can think of, that Shriekmaw doesn’t, and the Boomerang effect hardly seems worth while. Could you cut them for like more Shriekmaws and like a Firespout or something? Or is there some interaction that I’m missing that makes this card really strong?
It’s a shame he and the other had to get let go. He’s a great personality for Magic.
How sick would it be if he won Kyoto or something. Go Randy.
Baker, -4/-4 and Terror (via Shriekmaw) are very different in this format. Most notably, -4/-4 kills Demigod of Revenge and Ashenmoor Gouger, which Terror does not. Also, instant speed is a huge difference, between, say, killing a Mistbind Clique and having it shielded by a Scion of Oona.
The Boomerang effect is great. Playing it on Vivid or other CIPT lands is so good in certain matchups (namely 5cc, but probably also Planeswalkers… nice Fertile Ground… and others) especially when you can follow it up with subsequent Grixis Charms or Ajani Vengeant tap downs, both of which this deck is capable of. It is pretty impressive to have 5cc on an effective 2 mana the turn you make a Siege-gang Commander.
Also, while Grixis Charm’s pump has synergy with Siege-gang Commander, it also turns every Bitterblossom token into a Lightning Bolt, which can (and has, for me) kill people out of nowhere, much like Torrent of Souls decks like to do.
I seem to have forgotten about Demigod and Gouger. That’s pretty embarrassing. In that case I can see how the flexibility of it being an instant would make up for the difficulty of casting it. I’ll take my foot out of my mouth now.