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	<title>Comments on: Ruined FOREVER: The Magic 2010 Rules Changes by Zvi Mowshowitz</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.top8magic.com/2009/06/ruined-forever-the-magic-2010-rules-changes-by-zvi-mowshowitz/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.top8magic.com/2009/06/ruined-forever-the-magic-2010-rules-changes-by-zvi-mowshowitz/</link>
	<description>Magic: the Gathering current trends, play tips, gossip</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 11 Feb 2012 19:05:40 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Anderson Girotto</title>
		<link>http://www.top8magic.com/2009/06/ruined-forever-the-magic-2010-rules-changes-by-zvi-mowshowitz/#comment-1743</link>
		<dc:creator>Anderson Girotto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 12:56:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.top8magic.com/?p=1632#comment-1743</guid>
		<description>This #5 change was just nonsense. Ridiculous.

Some neat tricks and decision makings are lost forever.

I dunno, I think they want players to buy their new stuff, and forget the old ones. As a 13-year-playing Magic player, I'm just disapointed.

I don't play in tournaments anymore, I don't like their new stuff, and I just use my old decks.

Suddenly I realise that my Anurid Brushhopper deck is not as good, as the little guy won't be dealing damage e disappearing, the Yavimaya Elders won't kill creatures in combat anymore, and Ravenous Baloth is just less usefull.

Well, maybe I'll splash blue so I can draw cards. 'Cos I've just my card advantage tricks.

Or I'll just add bigger and dumber creatures...

Thx WotC!!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This #5 change was just nonsense. Ridiculous.</p>
<p>Some neat tricks and decision makings are lost forever.</p>
<p>I dunno, I think they want players to buy their new stuff, and forget the old ones. As a 13-year-playing Magic player, I&#8217;m just disapointed.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t play in tournaments anymore, I don&#8217;t like their new stuff, and I just use my old decks.</p>
<p>Suddenly I realise that my Anurid Brushhopper deck is not as good, as the little guy won&#8217;t be dealing damage e disappearing, the Yavimaya Elders won&#8217;t kill creatures in combat anymore, and Ravenous Baloth is just less usefull.</p>
<p>Well, maybe I&#8217;ll splash blue so I can draw cards. &#8216;Cos I&#8217;ve just my card advantage tricks.</p>
<p>Or I&#8217;ll just add bigger and dumber creatures&#8230;</p>
<p>Thx WotC!!!!</p>
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		<title>By: alfromcairo</title>
		<link>http://www.top8magic.com/2009/06/ruined-forever-the-magic-2010-rules-changes-by-zvi-mowshowitz/#comment-1471</link>
		<dc:creator>alfromcairo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Sep 2009 22:24:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.top8magic.com/?p=1632#comment-1471</guid>
		<description>I still don't understand the change.  It could have something to do with the fact that I quit playing before sixth and recently took it back up.  The judge at our FNM could not articulate the differences succinctly and I don't think the rules language helps.  Please help me.  

If I block or attack with a morphling can I still not pump in response to an opponent's giant growth.  Can I not save creatures with bounce (although they would then not deal damage).  I need this explained well and it hasen't been thusfar.  Zvi, please help!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I still don&#8217;t understand the change.  It could have something to do with the fact that I quit playing before sixth and recently took it back up.  The judge at our FNM could not articulate the differences succinctly and I don&#8217;t think the rules language helps.  Please help me.  </p>
<p>If I block or attack with a morphling can I still not pump in response to an opponent&#8217;s giant growth.  Can I not save creatures with bounce (although they would then not deal damage).  I need this explained well and it hasen&#8217;t been thusfar.  Zvi, please help!</p>
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		<title>By: Scuzgob</title>
		<link>http://www.top8magic.com/2009/06/ruined-forever-the-magic-2010-rules-changes-by-zvi-mowshowitz/#comment-1435</link>
		<dc:creator>Scuzgob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 18:30:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.top8magic.com/?p=1632#comment-1435</guid>
		<description>No mana burn kinda annoyed me. I made a deck that forced my opponent to mana burn himself to death, it was pretty funny. Useless, but funny.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No mana burn kinda annoyed me. I made a deck that forced my opponent to mana burn himself to death, it was pretty funny. Useless, but funny.</p>
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		<title>By: Cadrac</title>
		<link>http://www.top8magic.com/2009/06/ruined-forever-the-magic-2010-rules-changes-by-zvi-mowshowitz/#comment-1362</link>
		<dc:creator>Cadrac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Jul 2009 08:22:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.top8magic.com/?p=1632#comment-1362</guid>
		<description>Too put things bluntly, I don't give a rats ass if somebody's infant finds the game easier to play.  If I wanted to play a game as boring and juvenile as Pokemon or Yu-gi-oh, I'd be playing those games.  I am the aforementioned "casual player", even though I've been playing since Unlimited.  I'm not big into tournaments and only rarely compete in FNM.  I have to admit, I never liked damage on the stack.  I found it highly counter intuitive that my healers went to work on the wounded before they ever got wounded or that my troll had to regenerate from a wound he hadn't even taken yet, but this new system to replace it is simply horrific.  Rather than fixing the problem regarding healing and regen, it makes it worse, while introducing an idiotic system for preset must kills.  Reducing flexibility and eliminating strategic options under the guise of increasing intuitiveness while actually not improving the intuitiveness at all, is just a case of dumbing down magic.  WOTC seems insistent on targeting a younger and younger audience (which may or may not have anything to do with the fact that they are now owned by Hasbro), but I for one am likely to become even more "casual" a player, in that I will give the new rules a try, but if I find them as stupid and pointless as I suspect they will be, I won't be participating in ANY more sanctioned play, as I will only be playing in venues where everyone agrees to play under the older, better rules.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Too put things bluntly, I don&#8217;t give a rats ass if somebody&#8217;s infant finds the game easier to play.  If I wanted to play a game as boring and juvenile as Pokemon or Yu-gi-oh, I&#8217;d be playing those games.  I am the aforementioned &#8220;casual player&#8221;, even though I&#8217;ve been playing since Unlimited.  I&#8217;m not big into tournaments and only rarely compete in FNM.  I have to admit, I never liked damage on the stack.  I found it highly counter intuitive that my healers went to work on the wounded before they ever got wounded or that my troll had to regenerate from a wound he hadn&#8217;t even taken yet, but this new system to replace it is simply horrific.  Rather than fixing the problem regarding healing and regen, it makes it worse, while introducing an idiotic system for preset must kills.  Reducing flexibility and eliminating strategic options under the guise of increasing intuitiveness while actually not improving the intuitiveness at all, is just a case of dumbing down magic.  WOTC seems insistent on targeting a younger and younger audience (which may or may not have anything to do with the fact that they are now owned by Hasbro), but I for one am likely to become even more &#8220;casual&#8221; a player, in that I will give the new rules a try, but if I find them as stupid and pointless as I suspect they will be, I won&#8217;t be participating in ANY more sanctioned play, as I will only be playing in venues where everyone agrees to play under the older, better rules.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://www.top8magic.com/2009/06/ruined-forever-the-magic-2010-rules-changes-by-zvi-mowshowitz/#comment-1318</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 21:03:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.top8magic.com/?p=1632#comment-1318</guid>
		<description>The loss of damage on the stack will bring BIG changes to how decks are built. I just dont think it will be for the better. A lot of cards in the shallow pool of type 2 will lose their intended functionality with the old rules. Strategic plays are being forced to be played earlier and combat damage tricks have almost been crippled.
While it helps younger players and newbies, it doesn help the masses that have played under the old rules for years such as myself.
we are losing damage on the stack, that is a big rules change for me to swallow and accept as a major welcome.
I will give it a try and see how it goes and I am sure it will take some time to get used to new rules. 
It did affect my gameplay at a recent booster draft with Vampire Aristocrat in play. as i could not kill off one extra creature and sacrifice with damage on the stack. Frustrating but I wont base my distaste for the new rules changes based on one game.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The loss of damage on the stack will bring BIG changes to how decks are built. I just dont think it will be for the better. A lot of cards in the shallow pool of type 2 will lose their intended functionality with the old rules. Strategic plays are being forced to be played earlier and combat damage tricks have almost been crippled.<br />
While it helps younger players and newbies, it doesn help the masses that have played under the old rules for years such as myself.<br />
we are losing damage on the stack, that is a big rules change for me to swallow and accept as a major welcome.<br />
I will give it a try and see how it goes and I am sure it will take some time to get used to new rules.<br />
It did affect my gameplay at a recent booster draft with Vampire Aristocrat in play. as i could not kill off one extra creature and sacrifice with damage on the stack. Frustrating but I wont base my distaste for the new rules changes based on one game.</p>
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		<title>By: israel</title>
		<link>http://www.top8magic.com/2009/06/ruined-forever-the-magic-2010-rules-changes-by-zvi-mowshowitz/#comment-1280</link>
		<dc:creator>israel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 17:19:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.top8magic.com/?p=1632#comment-1280</guid>
		<description>first let me say kudos to zvi for a great article and podcast. it should be required reading and listening for wizards staff. its hard for me to explain but i've had this feeling for a long time that there are a lot of people working for wizards that don't have that "fuzzy" feeling about magic the same way that some of us do ( and not even close to a lot of the original people who development the game was a labor of love on all levels, r&#38;d and executivley  ). for most of us, i think it would be a "willy wonka" kind of experience to be involved in the development process and see and experience all the inner-workings of the fabled wizards "factory", sorry to say, not everyone in the factory cares as much,or on the same level as you and i. 

Don't believe me?? look at the changes they have put in place over the years

mirrodin block forward R&#38;D has had artistic control over the cards and has implemented its " magic meets the matrix" policy regarding the look and feel of the game. this mostly effects old artists as they have been alienated (ed beard jr., kaja, phil foglio,ect) but not all, you still see guys like tedin and poole and most of the power artists but i think this is akin to why garfield is at every major public event, they are a little to big to stuff in a closet somewhere and ignore and if thats the only reason they are still around then thats a shame. out with the old. this to me is the beginning of a mental shift in the basic core of magic. the game has these basic elements, water, fire, earth, death, and life. the development of the game itself is based on specific elements also and the original artistry and design that added that flair that made the game not only original and beautiful but who knew was the beating heart of the game. actual paintings cant be blown up to whatever size for posters, banners and wallpaper for your computer so they are gone.  next..

mythic rares are a direct correlation to wizards attempting to compete in markets that have nothing to do with gaming but more in line with sports cards. mythics are supposed to be magic's version of super rares like the cards with pieces of players jerseys and bats and other pieces of the actual game. ask a rep and they will tell you that thats the market they feel like they are competing in, or just go to wal-mart. they have designed a whole product just for wal-mart for the new player, packs that only cost 1.99 but you dont receive a rare every time (obviously for the new guy, right next to the topps and upperdeck)next...

m10 introducing new cards. wow how can we sell this product that never sells and get everyone exited about it??? i got it, we'll add a couple new cards, so the competitive guys gotta buy it, add some sexy old stuff so the casual guys want it, and well put some new "dual lands" in so everyone will have to get it. by the way they suck!!! i dont know if i want to play them or the shard lands really sad. all of this in a attempt to sell a product that has continually tanked for wizards. the most obvious thing here is how they made "new" cards by just changing the names.and last

changing the rules.      i gotta tell u im lost with the explanations ive gotten so far. i was around for 6th changes, and i dont remember people being this upset. the way i understood the old changes went like this:

last in first out

i play lightning bolt,
you play counterspell, 
i play brainstorm

no more responses

brainstorm resolves,then counterspell resolves, and lightning bolt is countered.
it was like zipping up a zipper on a jacket, you start at the bottom and go all the way to the top with no stopping  until u got to the top or bottom. then it changed to:

play bolt, 
you counter,
i play brainstorm
i resolve brainstorm and draw counterspell
i play counterspell on your counterpell and bolt resolves

instead of zipping up and down with no stopping, it was more like placing one book on top of another, still lifo but alowing more interaction and making the game better. that was really the only fundamental change. this new one is a doozy. the point of all this......


let the people who play the game decide how it is played made and developed. include us in the process.Dialogue, please please please, because here is what u have to deal with now.. new player walks in a store and wants to learn how to play, i have to teach him and i hate the new rules. he cant play by himself (motl) and absolutely cant learn by himself, most likely didnt gain an intrest in the game on his own, so were back to square one. your players drive this game you should listen to them, they will make this game last, not some potential new guy who it seems like these changes are centered around. magic is about word of mouth and showing your friend a new game. once you get in its every man for himself but you gotta get over that first hurdle, getting cards in players hands, and not listening to the majority of your player base doesnt seem like the best way to accomplish this. on the eve of the pre release im a little worried about how people are gonna feel about these rules and as a person who sells cards for a living ive never been more uncertain of magics future. i hope i am wrong</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>first let me say kudos to zvi for a great article and podcast. it should be required reading and listening for wizards staff. its hard for me to explain but i&#8217;ve had this feeling for a long time that there are a lot of people working for wizards that don&#8217;t have that &#8220;fuzzy&#8221; feeling about magic the same way that some of us do ( and not even close to a lot of the original people who development the game was a labor of love on all levels, r&amp;d and executivley  ). for most of us, i think it would be a &#8220;willy wonka&#8221; kind of experience to be involved in the development process and see and experience all the inner-workings of the fabled wizards &#8220;factory&#8221;, sorry to say, not everyone in the factory cares as much,or on the same level as you and i. </p>
<p>Don&#8217;t believe me?? look at the changes they have put in place over the years</p>
<p>mirrodin block forward R&amp;D has had artistic control over the cards and has implemented its &#8221; magic meets the matrix&#8221; policy regarding the look and feel of the game. this mostly effects old artists as they have been alienated (ed beard jr., kaja, phil foglio,ect) but not all, you still see guys like tedin and poole and most of the power artists but i think this is akin to why garfield is at every major public event, they are a little to big to stuff in a closet somewhere and ignore and if thats the only reason they are still around then thats a shame. out with the old. this to me is the beginning of a mental shift in the basic core of magic. the game has these basic elements, water, fire, earth, death, and life. the development of the game itself is based on specific elements also and the original artistry and design that added that flair that made the game not only original and beautiful but who knew was the beating heart of the game. actual paintings cant be blown up to whatever size for posters, banners and wallpaper for your computer so they are gone.  next..</p>
<p>mythic rares are a direct correlation to wizards attempting to compete in markets that have nothing to do with gaming but more in line with sports cards. mythics are supposed to be magic&#8217;s version of super rares like the cards with pieces of players jerseys and bats and other pieces of the actual game. ask a rep and they will tell you that thats the market they feel like they are competing in, or just go to wal-mart. they have designed a whole product just for wal-mart for the new player, packs that only cost 1.99 but you dont receive a rare every time (obviously for the new guy, right next to the topps and upperdeck)next&#8230;</p>
<p>m10 introducing new cards. wow how can we sell this product that never sells and get everyone exited about it??? i got it, we&#8217;ll add a couple new cards, so the competitive guys gotta buy it, add some sexy old stuff so the casual guys want it, and well put some new &#8220;dual lands&#8221; in so everyone will have to get it. by the way they suck!!! i dont know if i want to play them or the shard lands really sad. all of this in a attempt to sell a product that has continually tanked for wizards. the most obvious thing here is how they made &#8220;new&#8221; cards by just changing the names.and last</p>
<p>changing the rules.      i gotta tell u im lost with the explanations ive gotten so far. i was around for 6th changes, and i dont remember people being this upset. the way i understood the old changes went like this:</p>
<p>last in first out</p>
<p>i play lightning bolt,<br />
you play counterspell,<br />
i play brainstorm</p>
<p>no more responses</p>
<p>brainstorm resolves,then counterspell resolves, and lightning bolt is countered.<br />
it was like zipping up a zipper on a jacket, you start at the bottom and go all the way to the top with no stopping  until u got to the top or bottom. then it changed to:</p>
<p>play bolt,<br />
you counter,<br />
i play brainstorm<br />
i resolve brainstorm and draw counterspell<br />
i play counterspell on your counterpell and bolt resolves</p>
<p>instead of zipping up and down with no stopping, it was more like placing one book on top of another, still lifo but alowing more interaction and making the game better. that was really the only fundamental change. this new one is a doozy. the point of all this&#8230;&#8230;</p>
<p>let the people who play the game decide how it is played made and developed. include us in the process.Dialogue, please please please, because here is what u have to deal with now.. new player walks in a store and wants to learn how to play, i have to teach him and i hate the new rules. he cant play by himself (motl) and absolutely cant learn by himself, most likely didnt gain an intrest in the game on his own, so were back to square one. your players drive this game you should listen to them, they will make this game last, not some potential new guy who it seems like these changes are centered around. magic is about word of mouth and showing your friend a new game. once you get in its every man for himself but you gotta get over that first hurdle, getting cards in players hands, and not listening to the majority of your player base doesnt seem like the best way to accomplish this. on the eve of the pre release im a little worried about how people are gonna feel about these rules and as a person who sells cards for a living ive never been more uncertain of magics future. i hope i am wrong</p>
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		<title>By: Hellbeast</title>
		<link>http://www.top8magic.com/2009/06/ruined-forever-the-magic-2010-rules-changes-by-zvi-mowshowitz/#comment-1273</link>
		<dc:creator>Hellbeast</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jul 2009 22:08:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.top8magic.com/?p=1632#comment-1273</guid>
		<description>sonofa... keep hitting tab damnit &#62;&#60; one more time... i feel WOTC is doing what Marvel did; appeal to new cusomers whilst screwing over the loyal fans i.e. "Ultimate Marvel" and rewriting strorylines to match the movies, etc.  It happens far to often.Companies overly focused on building capital and meanwhile letting the quality of the product go by the wayside.
 By the way I hit the tab button twice accidently (not enter as I said in my last comment.[I meant tab]).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>sonofa&#8230; keep hitting tab damnit &gt;&lt; one more time&#8230; i feel WOTC is doing what Marvel did; appeal to new cusomers whilst screwing over the loyal fans i.e. &#8220;Ultimate Marvel&#8221; and rewriting strorylines to match the movies, etc.  It happens far to often.Companies overly focused on building capital and meanwhile letting the quality of the product go by the wayside.<br />
 By the way I hit the tab button twice accidently (not enter as I said in my last comment.[I meant tab]).</p>
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		<title>By: Hellbeast</title>
		<link>http://www.top8magic.com/2009/06/ruined-forever-the-magic-2010-rules-changes-by-zvi-mowshowitz/#comment-1272</link>
		<dc:creator>Hellbeast</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jul 2009 21:58:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.top8magic.com/?p=1632#comment-1272</guid>
		<description>oops accidently hit enter &#62;&#60; as i was saying.. I feel WOTC</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>oops accidently hit enter &gt;&lt; as i was saying.. I feel WOTC</p>
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		<title>By: Hellbeast</title>
		<link>http://www.top8magic.com/2009/06/ruined-forever-the-magic-2010-rules-changes-by-zvi-mowshowitz/#comment-1271</link>
		<dc:creator>Hellbeast</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jul 2009 21:56:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.top8magic.com/?p=1632#comment-1271</guid>
		<description>So many cards are "nerfed" because of this its not even funny.I think the new rules caters to dumber players.I think WOTC thought behind this was: "Let's dumb the game down and attract new players(customers)".I feel WOTC</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So many cards are &#8220;nerfed&#8221; because of this its not even funny.I think the new rules caters to dumber players.I think WOTC thought behind this was: &#8220;Let&#8217;s dumb the game down and attract new players(customers)&#8221;.I feel WOTC</p>
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		<title>By: Tententai</title>
		<link>http://www.top8magic.com/2009/06/ruined-forever-the-magic-2010-rules-changes-by-zvi-mowshowitz/#comment-1209</link>
		<dc:creator>Tententai</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 22:18:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.top8magic.com/?p=1632#comment-1209</guid>
		<description>How much "skill" does one need to put damage on stack and then sac his mogg or play his giant growth ? Apart from rare situations, there are mostly obvious decisions anyway. I liked David's comment about the fact that with 2010 rules it opens up possibilities for real decisions (do A or B, not both).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How much &#8220;skill&#8221; does one need to put damage on stack and then sac his mogg or play his giant growth ? Apart from rare situations, there are mostly obvious decisions anyway. I liked David&#8217;s comment about the fact that with 2010 rules it opens up possibilities for real decisions (do A or B, not both).</p>
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