Comments on: Op-Ed: Has Magic Lost Its Way? by Frank Lepore

By: Top 8 Magic » Angelfire 2.0 by Frank Lepore

Top 8 Magic » Angelfire 2.0 by Frank Lepore — Tue, 25 Aug 2009 21:34:37 +0000

[...] marks the return of guest writer Frank Lepore who previously authored the much talked about, “Has Magic Lost Its Way” on this site. With barely a weekend remaining in the current PTQ season he offers up a last [...]

By: M. Blowfly

M. Blowfly — Sat, 25 Jul 2009 22:22:24 +0000

This has some interesting points, and I’d recommend that you scope out Randy Buehler’s blog post, which has some similarities. I would point out, however, that the problem that was presented with the Colossus (of many kinds) was only artificially solved by the rule changes. The true issue was a more experienced player trying to d*ck move his way out of a situation his deck can’t cope with. For example, when I used to play Upheaval-Tog years ago: an R/B Scuta player has some untapped lands and cards and I cast Upheaval and float 3. We bounce things back and I put Teeth down. He says, “Terminate.” He says that he announced floating the mana (which was untrue). I said that he hadn’t announced it or I would have cast Nightscape Familiar with Lapse backup (which was true). To solve the issue, I call over a judge who has no choice but to believe him about the mana. I ask him when he played Terminate. He said at the end of my 2nd main. I reminded him that I played my spells first main. The judge had no way to agree with him, so he ended up taking mana burn for 2 and losing. This whole episode was not a function of the rules, but rather utilizing a lack of clarity. I feel as though your example is assigning “new vs. old” rules values to the situation when it isn’t about them. It’s just about a player using rules to punish someone (justly, as I believe I did, or unjustly like the guy from your store.)

Sorry for the wall of text, but I have to address something else: There are other formats. You say, “Call me old fashioned but I don’t want either player to be on a three turn clock in all of their games.” That’s a standard combo-on-combo clock for a Vintage game one. I feel as though you are old-fashioned in that you value spells over creatures, but perhaps not old-fashioned enough to recall a turn three Birds/Instill/Stasis or turn one Dark Rit/Necro. I’m not trying to be a jerk, but I am trying to register my disagreements. The other formats are either ones of the past or those of the present; Legacy is entirely defined by the nature of its spells. For example, Natural Order is much more important than the Progenitus it finds, and the Force of Will that counters it is far more important than the Trygon Predator it pitches. I’ve stopped playing Standard for the very same reasons that you are concerned about it. The next Extended season should hopefully reflect a dominance of countermagic and skill-intensive play like you seem to hope for, with Faeries, Tron, Dredge, Scepter, and maybe even fun decks like Eggs making a show. This has historically been true, like the Extended format at the time of Ravnica’s release. The PT LA top 8 featured two Tog and a Scepter-Chant beating Boros and Madness when Boros decks were constantly winning standard events.

To quote the Hitchiker’s Guide: “Don’t Panic.”

By: Philip

Philip — Sat, 18 Jul 2009 10:40:32 +0000

@Mario: I’m kind of a new player, I started playing thos game right about the time Lorwyn 1st came out.

I just want to clarify, doesnt First Strike just give the creature a way to deal damage first before the opponent and not give it two blows against the enemy?

Correct me if I’m wrong.

By: DPM

DPM — Mon, 13 Jul 2009 13:08:27 +0000

I agree with a certain amount of this, particularly the cascade mechanic, but not so much the examples.

I mean if revillark is only going to run 2 path to exile, then it is going to get stomped as a control deck it has to react to the format, so it should be running 3-4 path, 4 mind stone to accelerate to 4 drops (wrath, sower etc) and finks to ensure it gets to the mid-late game where its card advantage will win. Control decks always have to adapt, if revillark (pre-M10) is built well it can take down aggro all day long.

In the Doran example you mention how they got the nut draw and won, but if the control deck had early interactions like path or, again, finks they could have held on. In the next game the Doran deck loses, you pass this off as mana screw, but this is not a fair assessment. Doran plays very powerful cards with accordingly restrictive costs, this stretches its mana base and makes it more susceptible to awkward draws, mana screw and for opponents to wreck them by wasting their bop or taking out a land. Therefore the greater power as seen in the first game nut draw is balanced by the mana restrictions (I am not claiming it is perfect though).

By: Frank Lepore

Frank Lepore — Fri, 10 Jul 2009 08:25:59 +0000

Thank you, Mario.

By: Mario Haßler

Mario Haßler — Fri, 10 Jul 2009 07:23:06 +0000

By: Mooncalf

Mooncalf — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 16:38:21 +0000

I don’t see what the new rules have to do the first example. He plays his colossal mights after blockers are declared, that means the instants will resolve before first strike damage will go on the stack, let alone before it resolves! The swans player was thus trying to cheat his first strike damage in a phase too early.

Under the new rules, this will be exactly the same, except for the fact that first strike dmg assigned will resolve immediatly, so he will lose he second -legal- chance to play his instants before first strike dmg will resolve. This doesnt change anything about this particular situation though.

Please correct me if i’m wrong.

By: Mario Haßler

Mario Haßler — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 07:50:59 +0000

@Alex A: You’re wrong. As before, there will be an additional combat damage step when creatures with first strike or double strike are involved. As before, players get priority within each of those steps, and the steps only end when all players pass while stack is empty. The only difference is, with the new rules, the combat damage already has been dealt (and not only been assigned) when players get priority.

The comprehensive rules have been published now, read it here: http://www.wizards.com/magic/comprules/MagicCompRules_20090708.txt (rule 510.4 + 510.5).

By: Alex A

Alex A — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 20:05:35 +0000

@ Amarsir

Sorry, but you are wrong….in the pre rules change…this was possible, though only if you are slimy…because no one had put the first strike damage on the stack, or had it reslove

but in the new rules…there will be NO BREAK from first strike damage to regular…if a first strike hit kills a creature, it wont deal damage back…but there will be no response time other than static checks between FS damage and Normal damage

Because of this, there will be no way to try to stack first strike damage and kill the mob that way…all of these spells would have to have been played BEFORE the Declare Blockers step was over, and we move into the damage step…thus not allowing for this underhanded play to happen against a casual player

(I am not against this sort of move in general, at higher levels of play….but at Prereleases and FNM I do not think this is right…it doesnt give new players a chance to learn all the rules while playing, they learn from mistakes…which does teach better…but there should be some kind of learning curve for these lower end tournaments)

By: Amarsir

Amarsir — Tue, 07 Jul 2009 13:48:30 +0000

I have to disagree on the first point. You can still cast spells between first strike and regular damage. And more to the point, you can still be slimy and try to confuse your opponent into accepting something other than what he actually did.